Winning the Debate by Silencing the Opposition
Anyone who has taken a Constitution class in high school knows that the First Amendment protects the right of all people to express almost any idea they want in the public square (with the exceptions of inciting riots, threats of violence, etc). Yet there is one group the various pundits insist need to be silenced for the sake of our nation and that is Christians.
Recently, Lou Dobbs lamented the influence religion has on politics. He said churches “are driving that political adventurism as those leaders conflate religion and politics.” Apparently he suggests the government should do something about shutting up those damn Christians who keep expressing their points of view.
In a democratic republic such as this one, all people get an equal say in what they believe the state should be about. That includes atheists, agnostics, wiccans, Jews, Muslims and even those pesky Christians. There is absolutely nothing wrong with any of those groups expressing any of there views. A diverse and tolerant society requires nothing less.
The idea that the Bill of Rights, under the moniker of the Separation of Church and state, is designed to restrict citizens from petitioning their government based on some perceived ideological characteristic is absurd. We’ll skip past the fact that the First Amendment requires institutional separation, not state mandated atheism.
What Lou Dobbs, and others like him, are upset about is that they are on the losing side of issues. And what do they suggest to fix it? Convincing arguments? Helpful debates? No. They want to silence the opposition. This is un-American and the citing of “national values” to stifle free speech borders on absurd. If you can’t handle a country where all people get their say, well, I do question your patriotism.
The bold assertion that the people in the pews are separated from the people behind the pulpit is novel and interesting, considering it is coming from someone who has little grasp on what people in the pews believe or want. Apparently Dobbs things that the people in the pews are at once automatons that follow whatever their pastor says but at the same time acutely aware that their pastors “are a class unto themself.” Either they’re stupid or their not. With the amount of “church shopping” that goes on, it’s pretty clear that if the people don’t like the message, they go somewhere else.
Most importantly, what Dobbs is lamenting is that people aren’t blaming immigrants for the immigration problem. When the government of the United States and Mexico signal to their people loud and clear that they aren’t going to enforce the law, what did you expect was going to happen? Imagine a college town saying they aren’t going to enforce drinking laws for a weekend. You’d have a town full of drunk freshmen passed out in the gutter. Duh.
There is more to the debate than blaming immigrants versus amnesty and proposals take that into account. Of course people think the border should be secured but they don’t necessarily believe that immigrants should be rounded up for what really amounts to a failure of the government.
The attempt to silence Christians should be called what it is, censorship. No one is trying to mandate forced Christianity down the throats of citizens. No one is attempting to silence non-Christian points of view. It is long past time that Christians are cynically discriminated against simply because they don’t hold to whatever elites consider the “right point of view” to be. Because you know if those same Christians were saying the same things, they’d be pointing towards them as proof they’re right.
“Apparently he suggests the government should do something about shutting up those damn Christians who keep expressing their points of view.”
And where in that article does Dobbs make such a suggestion? Quote the exact sentence.
Comment by meatbrain | May 15, 2007
[...] John Bambenek says Christians are being censored. [...]
Pingback by Around the Illinois blogosphere | Peoria Pundits | May 15, 2007
The way the “enlightened ones” argue regarding the war against Christianity is to claim it does not exist. Meanwhile, they bend over backwards for Muslims, which is an ideology determined to destroy them. Idiotic. God Bless, and great post.
Comment by Douglas V. Gibbs | May 16, 2007
Still waiting, Bambenek. Where’s the evidence that Dobbs said what you claim he said?
Comment by meatbrain | May 19, 2007
Meatbrain, is it true you advocate the cessation of serving meatloaf in school cafeterias? And is it also true that your favorite lover is a trans-sexual Estonian midget with a lisp?
Comment by Kender | May 19, 2007
Hey meatloaf, quit issuing orders, nobody has to listen to you. Your blog is completely designed to attack us, and it would serve you right if Bambeneck ignored you; you don’t deserve an answer.
Comment by Cao | May 19, 2007
Meathead has never heard of paraphrasing, I guess…but that’s his problem, because he lives in a linear world where he tells everyone what they’re thinking.
Comment by Cao | May 19, 2007
Cao: What did Dobbs say that can be paraphrased as “the government should do something about shutting up those damn Christians”?
It’s a simple question — the kind that requires that you produce facts, and thus the kind that always terrifies you into abandoning the discussion. Bye, Cao…
Comment by meatbrain | May 19, 2007
Meaty, why do you continue to refuse to answer my questions? What are you scared of little girl?
I demand you answer my questions, with a truthful answer that contain verifiable facts.
Why can’t you do that, meaty?
Is it possible that you don’t have any facts that counter the fact that your favorite lover is a midget trans-sexual estonian with a lisp?
Comment by Kender | May 19, 2007
I demand that you answer Kender’s question, Meatball.
Comment by Cao | May 19, 2007
Kender, of course, is the brave defender of the American border who is the only individual thus far to be honored with his own avatar on Thinkingmeat.net.
Comment by meatbrain | May 19, 2007
Meat ball,
Answer Kender’s question. I demand that you answer it and that you provide verifiable facts.
Kender, she might not have a lisp, just a hair lip.
Comment by Big Dog | May 19, 2007
Meaty, thank you for the avatar……I bear a striking resemblance to your mom.
Comment by Kender | May 19, 2007
Cao is, of course, unable to provide any example of anything Dobbs said that can be paraphrased as “the government should do something about shutting up those damn Christians”. Bambenek is similarly unable to back up his own claim.
The tactic of making an accusation for which there is no supporting evidence is a popular one among the wingnuts. It is always a sure sign of the intellectual bankruptcy of those who use it.
Comment by meatbrain | May 19, 2007
and still meaty you refuse to answer accusations of your lover being a midget trans-sexual estonian with a lisp?
Come one and answer the question meaty.
Or do you not have any facts to back it up?
By the way, please tell your mom I said Ook-ook-eee-aww-aww.
Comment by Kender | May 19, 2007
Let us look at the world through his eyes for a moment, shall we?
1. Poverty=Christianity says we are to take care of the poor widows, children and infirmed.
Lou Dobbs does not like Christianity, so get rid of all Foreign Aid and welfare and social security programs!
2. Homeless shelters=Mostly manned by Churches. Dobbs would have to stop harping on that.
3. Illegal aliens=Give to Ceasar what is Ceasar’s. Dobbs would have to stop harping about illegal aliens.
4. Schools=Started by the Catholics. Education would have to be thrown out the window.
5. Taxes (Tithes)=Church congregation. Hehehe.
6. Work=If a healthy man does not work, he does not eat. (Bible)
7. Debt=On the 7th year, all debts are to be forgiven. What does this have to do with American citizens? If the USA can forgive foreign debt, they should at least forgive debts at home first! lol.
Do you see where I’m going with this? LOL
Comment by Rosemary | May 20, 2007
Dear Meatbrain,
I heard him on a talk radio expressing these views. I apology for not remembering which one, since I listen to talk radio all day as I do my work at home. That’s the best I can do, since I don’t waste my money on cable. lol
Comment by Rosemary | May 20, 2007
Dear Kender,
I love meatloaf! The way I make it, of course, but it is soooo good. lol. No, I do not have a trans whatever lover. I have no lover at all. I am single, and single women should not have lovers! You know that.
Comment by Rosemary | May 20, 2007
“Apparently he suggests the government should do something about shutting up those damn Christians who keep expressing their points of view.”
And where in the referenced article does Dobbs make such a suggestion? Quote the exact sentence.
Comment by meatbrain | May 20, 2007
Meatforbrains doesn’t seem to understand that we don’t need to answer his stinking questions…all we need to do is point and laugh.
Comment by Cao | May 20, 2007
In fact, Cao (and Bambenek himself) cannot answer the question… because the article Bambenek referred to contains no such statement on Dobbs’ part. The tactics employed by Cao and her comrades are intended to distract attention from their (and Bambenek’s) inability to provide an answer to the question.
Comment by meatbrain | May 20, 2007
And yet again, Meatbrain completely and totally refuses to answer any question he is asked. Go ahead, Meatbrain, answer Kender’s question! Come on, answer it! Or are you too scared to answer it? Standard meatbrain tactic — refuse to answer any questions and simply babble on about unrelated stuff.
And you still owe me a dollar.
Comment by Ogre | May 20, 2007
In fact, Ogre (and Bambenek himself) cannot answer the question… because the article Bambenek referred to contains no such statement on Dobbs’ part. The tactics employed by Ogre and his comrades are intended to distract attention from their (and Bambenek’s) inability to provide an answer to the question.
Still waiting, Bambenek: Where in the article did Dobbs suggest that “the government should do something about shutting up those damn Christians”?
Comment by meatbrain | May 20, 2007
Still waiting, meatbrain: why won’t you answer Kender’s question? The tactics you’re employing by not answering the question is intended to distract attention from your inability to provide an answer to the question.
Comment by Ogre | May 21, 2007
Still waiting, Bambenek: Where in the article did Dobbs suggest that “the government should do something about shutting up those damn Christians”?
Comment by meatbrain | May 21, 2007
At first, it seemed the attacks on meatbrain were jokes.. but I’m half convinced that someone is trying to make a valid point in asking him to answer Kender’s question.
I hope we all can see the difference here: meatbrain is asking John to back up his own claim, while others are asking meatbrain to somehow refute their claims.
I honestly hope you consider me stupid for not understanding your satire. The other option is much sadder.
Comment by drew | May 22, 2007
No, Drew, I’m afraid that Kender and his playmates all actually do believe that inventing accusations out of thin air and then challenging someone to refute them is a valid means of advancing their arguments. It does have the advantage of relieving them of the horrid chore of producing any facts — a task that none of them are competent to accomplish in any event.
And Bambenek is just as incompetent as his goons. He still can’t shows us where in the article Dobbs suggested that “the government should do something about shutting up those damn Christians”. Poor fool — he actually thinks that if he ignores the question, it will go away.
Comment by meatbrain | May 23, 2007
Still waiting, Bambenek: Where in the article did Dobbs suggest that “the government should do something about shutting up those damn Christians”?
Is there some reason why one shouldn’t conclude that, after all this time without any response from you, you weren’t simply lying outright about the contents of the article, Bambenek?
Comment by meatbrain | May 27, 2007
You know you’re doing something right when you attract all this bashing. It’s clear what Dobbs is all about. And he’s not the only one out there. I’m sure in his heart of hearts Meatbrain knows you’re right but like most on the disingenuous Left, hammers because it feels good.
Great post and blog. Will certainly be back.
Comment by Aurora | May 28, 2007
Aurora, I read Dobbs’ article. Did you? If you did, can you tell me where in that article he suggested that “the government should do something about shutting up those damn Christians”?
Bambenek can’t. Maybe you can step in and lend him a hand. It’s obvious that he needs the help.
Comment by meatbrain | May 28, 2007